As I continue to work backwards from the known to the unknown (i.e. tracing the property history/purchases of Jacob and Barbara Shroyer), I am taking the liberty of also accumulating as much information as I can about Shaney John (aka, Shawnee John). I have found little tidbits here and there, but this is by far the most interesting. How fun would it be to be able to connect to such a legendary Central Pennsylvania folk figure such as the Shaney John described in the article below. Again I stress: my actual research has NOT yet connected the Shroyers to Shaney John, but that’s not to say it isn’t possible.

The public-domain book was found online by my mom, Terri Fassnacht, and provides a better description of his life than I have yet been able to find. Obviously, this is in large part, mystical, but there certainly seems to be some factual basis here regarding his life. In any event, I thought it made for an entertaining read and wanted to share the find. I was going to save it and add it to the exciting report if/when I was able to connect the families, but we might all be folklore before I ever finish that!

Google Books is a wonderful tool to have at your disposal, and I encourage all of you to explore what can be found there. The original book digitized here is:

Juniata Memories: Legends Collected in Central Pennsylvania, “Shaney John: A Tale From Saddler’s Run”, pp. 106-120, Henry w. Shoemaker, published by John Joseph McVey, 1916, Philadelphia, PA

Enjoy!

“Hey Chris, Are We Really Related to the Shroyers?”

This was a question I recently asked myself as I was reviewing all of my information in preparations to track down the elusive Shaney John. And the answer, in short, is we really don’t know that with 100% accuracy.

“But I thought you said Henry McGinnis was married to an Elizabeth Shroyer?”

I did in fact, and he was in fact. But was Elizabeth the mother of Henry’s children? The probable answer is “yes”, but in all reality, we can only show that she was the mother of the children that were born between the first date money was received by Elizabeth from the estate of Jacob Shroyer until the last date it was received. According to Jacob’s estate, those dates are 18 Mar 1828 to 10 Jun 1831. However, there is an interesting note in this estate, claiming that Elizabeth had already received various goods before the death of Jacob – in fact many years before.  The date of the note is 1818, but it does not explicitly state that she was married to Henry at that time. However – it could be assumed that if she received these items (bed  and bedstead, chest and spinning wheel, table, 2 chairs 1 iron pot iron ladles and pan, brewing tub, 1 cow and 3 sheep), she was no longer living at home. There is no mention of any other husband – she is only referred to as “Elizabeth McGinnis, formerly Elizabeth Shroyer”.

With the date of 1818, assuming that she did not live at home, and had no prior husband: She is very likely the mother of James, Jesse, and Elizabeth McGinnis. Given the estate distribution dates between 1828 and 1831, she is definitely the mother of William. That leaves the three youngest children: Christian, Catherine, and Henry. Given that there is no evidence yet to the contrary, I will continue to assume that these three youngest children are also Elizabeth’s, In fact, since she dies sometime between Jun 1831 and the 1840 census, it is entirely possible that she may have died during the birth of Henry, or complications thereafter.

“Don’t you have anything that just says that she is the mom, Henry is the dad??”

In a word, no. Unfortunately, conclusions have to be drawn from the information available. If new info comes to light, then those conclusions might be cast into doubt, or shown to be entirely wrong. That is why it’s so important to verify and document where these pieces all come from – not so much that you can “prove” stuff, but so that you will be able to remember your reasoning as you review your well-written, thorough proof argument. I will be attending a lecture later this month about the  “Dreaded Report”, as I hope to get some help getting these sorts of conclusions explained in detail, in writing, in narrative form.

But for now – back to chasing an Indian!

Main source for information for this post: Centre, PA, Original Probate Packets, Estate File #4265, Jacob Shreyer. Date of Letters: Sep 24 1825; Pennsylvania Room & Historical Museum, Bellefonte.

Hey, look at this! Hardly two full weeks into my New Year’s resolution to post more updates, and here we are…

First a disclaimer: In some of my correspondence, I’ve tried hard not to sound cynical or negatively prejudiced towards disbelief of family stories. The truth is, I neither believe nor disbelieve until I have something on which to base that decision. In this particular case, at this particular time, the only thing we have to go on regarding Indian ancestry is family legend posted online by other Shroyer descendants. That being the case, I am evaluating the pieces of evidence and trying to arrive at a conclusion.  I reserve the right to modify my conclusion as new evidence is discovered (or NOT discovered) as research progresses. I’ll try and lay out what I think and why I think it, and as always, people may draw their own conclusions.

As regular readers of the newsletter (as if such a thing exists) might remember, I have made mention that our McGinnis family may have Native American connections. Having engaged in a number of discussions about this recently, I have been sufficiently motivated to do three things: 1) do a little internet research about it 2) formulate a game plan and head to Centre County to research in-person, and 3) finally update this here McGinnis site a few times telling you all about it. Progressing in a logical order, I have started with #3, will talk about #1, and get to #2 later. (This is sarcasm – a tool I rely on heavily

OVERVIEW

First, let’s take a look at the text of the main variations of the story as the appear on the internet. Since I have not been able to get in touch with any of these authors, I won’t mention any by name here.

Version #1:

I have the history behind Jacob & Barbara Shroyer. Yes, they were Indian, Shawnee to be exact. Barabara’s father was the Chief of the Shawnee tribe along the Susquehanna. His name was Shawnee John. He adopted Jacob. So, Jacob and Barbara were not blood related, however, they were adopted brother and sister. Their daughter, Christina “Princess White Star” Schroyer married William Lutz, my descendent.
If you would like more info, I would be glad to give you more. I actually live near the land that Shawnee John was given for his tribe by William Penn, the founder of Pennsylvania. Shawnee John is buried near here. He is well known and well respected in the area. He actually left the Indian life when his tribe escaped to Ohio during the great Runaway. He chose to stay with his non-Indian family.

Version #2:

Seeking any information on the John Jacob SHROYER family. What I have been able to find out is: He was born about 1772 in Rebersburg, Centre Co., PA, and died bef. September 24,1825, in Haines Twp.,Rebersburg, Centre Co., PA, s/o Indian Chief John SHAWNEE. I learned he was adopted as a child into the Jacob SHROYER family. John Jacob SHROYER married Barbara SHROYER, born August 3, 1773, died January 4, 1857 in Rebersburg, Centre Co.,PA, d/o his adopted father. Of their 8 children, they had a daughter, Catharine.
>
> She married a William LUTZ/LOTZ. They had a daughter, Harriet Shroyer LUTZ/LOTZ, born about 1838, in Woodward Twp., Centre Co., PA, and died August 6,1890 in Woodward Twp., Centre Co., PA.
>
> >From what I understand is that John SHAWNEE, a Seneca Indian, served as an Indian Scout with Robinson’s Rangers during the French & Indian War at Heclapark (Mingoville), PA.

Version #3:

Barbara was the daughter of Jacob Schroyer who was an early Centra Pennasylvania settler (born bef 1860) He adopted the son of a Shawnee Indian Chief and named him Jacob Schroyer. He had a daughter named Barbara, b. 3 Aug 1773, Rebersburg, who married the Indian Jacob. Have much info re this family and willing to share. My wife is descended from Barbara’s daughter Christina “Princess White Star” Schroyer Lotz

PROBLEMS

Version #1

• Why would the adopted son of an Indian chief retain his German name? It is also worth noting that according to Jacob Shroyer’s probate file, his writings were in German
• While I wouldn’t call the search (or my knowledge) complete  – I can find no instance of a land grant to a Shawnee tribe in PA, and certainly not by William Penn, who died in 1718. (There was a treaty in 1701, but PA had no land claims in the area at that time – it was still Indian land, so Penn wouldn’t have needed to grant them any) The Treaty of Ft. Stanwix  in 1768 officially ceded all Indian lands in this area to the English and was the last purchase treaty between the Proprietorship and the Indians.
• The Great Runaway was in 1778, when white settlers fled to various forts and southward down the Susquehanna from Indian hostilities and attacks. The  Shawnee had removed from the Susquehanna  to Ohio 20 years earlier. (http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/shawnee/shawneehist.htm)
• Who was his “non-Indian family”? Meaning they had lived there the whole time, but he decided to live with the adoptive Indian family instead?

Version #2

• Robinson’s Rangers are a Revolutionary War group, not French and Indian
• John Shawnee is cited as a Seneca Indian (not saying it’s wrong – just different from the previous version)

Version #3

• Rebersburg was not laid out and named until 1809, although that’s not to say there weren’t settlers there as early as 1773 – will have to check into the dates/settlement a little more, but this would imply that there was either a father named “Shawnee John,” or a surname “Shroyer” at this time in this area.

CONCLUSION:

When you boil down these different versions, there are some similarities that might prove useful in guiding future research. The common elements seem to be the same, although the details appear to be inaccurate:

• Either Barbara or Jacob was an Indian adopted into a German family
• The Indian father in question, Shawney John/John Shaney,  served the whites in some military capacity
• All of these stories derive from descendants of Catherine “Princes White Star” Shroyer Lutz

Without any further information or documentation it seems unlikely that any one of these stories is correct as they are recited. However, taken together, it seems reasonable that the basic concept of adoption is possible and reasonable

MOVING FORWARD:

So what do I hope to do to clarify our understanding of this story? My mom and I are off to Centre County this weekend. I won’t detail what information I have already collected, but will wait for a complete collection of evidence (ya right!) to present it all at the same time. Some of the information I will be looking for, both there and through other sources include:

• A more complete history of the land that Jacob and Barbara purchased near Aaronsburg, PA in 1796. Search land warrants/patents and Northumberland deeds for like-named folks
• Any further history of  someone named Shawnee John. There is mention of the name in the Sixth Regiment of the Continental Line in 1778., but no details given.
• Double-check probate, other court records, Spangler collection, and burial records for Shawnee, Shawanese, or Shawnee John
• Find an obit for Barbara Shroyer
• Further research the family of Ludwig Shroyer, who died in Northumberland County in 1795. An Adam is listed among his sons – a name that appears again in Jacob and Barbara’s family.
• Check for any journals, diaries, personal papers, etc for this area and time frame
• Increase my general knowledge of the Indian tribes, situation, and potential documents in this area

I’m sure there’s a few things I’m forgetting, but if I keep working on this post, I’ll never get to Centre County on Saturday!

Incidentally, I find it interesting that in my own McGinnis family, James McGinnis’ midde name is Shadrul. I’ve done numerous searches for the meaning or other mention of this name but have found none.  Is Shadrul a potentially Indidan term? Is it actually Shroyer and was misheard or misread?

It’s a McGinnis Mystery, alright!

Looking at the date of the last post, I see that 1/4 of a year has passed without an update! Despite my dislike of New Year’s resolutions – especially those that involve me doing something – I will now, before the collective internet masses, proclaim that in 2010 I WILL make more frequent updates to the McGinnis site. That might possibly be in the form of linking to newly posted photos to my main genealogy site, maybe some new McGinnis discoveries, or maybe the introduction of a new McGinnis or two.

With all the things that have gone on in the past year, it’s easy to forget exactly how far this McGinnis thing has moved forward in the past year. While the family tree has not grown very far up, it certainly has grown out. We had our first McGinnis reunion in July, with a modest turnout. It was the first for the James McGinnis folks in quite awhile, and I am certain that it was the first modern McGinnis reunion with both James and Jesse represented. As I mentioned in the last newsletter , I need to get back in touch with a possibly descendant from a third son of Henry, William McGinnis who I also came into contact with over the last year (or so).

Looking ahead, I see a number of things I can be doing on the McGinnis front. Jessie McGinnis Lych and Paul McGinnis gave me a number of photos. I need to get those scanned and online. More research, more research, more research…did I mention more research? One thing I am unsure about is the newsletter format. At first, it was pretty easy to churn out issues, but as we moved into the second year, original material became more difficult. Thank you to our guest contributors, Carole Curran and Marilyn Oberg for their pieces on Rebecca McGinnis and Elizabeth May McGinnis respectively. In order for me to avoid filler, it might be necessary to switch to putting the newsletter out only twice a year, with occasional, smaller updates appearing here on the website.

It is sure to be a busy year! My best wishes to you all for a happy and prosperous year. Keep checking back, and I promise eventually you’ll see some new stuff!

- Chris